Last week President Obama went on television to encourage American school children to stay in school, study hard because it is the path to success and a stronger nation. Period.
The firestorm of insanity by the fundamentalist religious groups who align with the far right was beyond the pale. Never before in the history of this nation has a US President, the leader of the free world, been so maligned and attacked for an appeal to education. Here are just a few examples of the insanity that was spewed by the religiously afflicted in opposition to President Obama’s speech to the kids: *
"Public schools can't teach children to speak out in support of the sanctity of human life or traditional marriage. President Obama and the Democrats wouldn't dream of allowing prayer in school. Christmas Parties are now Holiday Parties. But the Democrats have no problem going against the majority of American people and usurping the rights of parents by sending Pied Piper Obama into the American classroom." Jim Greer, Chairman of the GOP of Florida
The Christian Coalition's blog made the claim that Obama's speech would result in teachers directing school children "to do volunteer work in the areas which he is concerned about: going to rallies and getting their parents to go with them to support universal health care; encouraging their Members of Congress to vote for Obama's huge tax increase schemes."
The fundamentalist OneNewsNow posted several pieces against Obama's speech. One was titled, "Mother Fears Obama School Speech Will Be 'Indoctrination Into Socialism.'" Another title said, "Obama's School Speech—Social Indoctrination?"
A 2010 gubernatorial candidate and member of Woodlake Assembly of God, Brogdon said he was worried that Obama might address "environmental conservation and other social issues. These are topics for parents to talk about with their children, not the President of the United States."
The founder of the American Family Policy Institute urged parents to boycott the president's speech accusing Obama of wanting to "brainwash" American school children and comparing his administration to the "leaders of the Hitler Youth,"
Look -- a long time ago I came to the conclusion that the most religiously infected are the most ignorant and uneducated people on the face of the planet. The only thing that surprises me is that I underestimated their racism, utter idiocy, capacity for hate, fear and their disdain for thought.
Meanwhile, search as I may, I can find no examples of atheists, Humanists, agnostics, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Satanists, Wiccans or any one besides Evangelical Fundamentalist Christians condemning Obama for his wanting to encourage our children to be educated.
I’m convinced that when they say “God’s will be done,” it means ”God wills you to abandon all dignity and reason, O ye mind slaves of superstition.”
* http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=14826
The firestorm of insanity by the fundamentalist religious groups who align with the far right was beyond the pale. Never before in the history of this nation has a US President, the leader of the free world, been so maligned and attacked for an appeal to education. Here are just a few examples of the insanity that was spewed by the religiously afflicted in opposition to President Obama’s speech to the kids: *
"Public schools can't teach children to speak out in support of the sanctity of human life or traditional marriage. President Obama and the Democrats wouldn't dream of allowing prayer in school. Christmas Parties are now Holiday Parties. But the Democrats have no problem going against the majority of American people and usurping the rights of parents by sending Pied Piper Obama into the American classroom." Jim Greer, Chairman of the GOP of Florida
The Christian Coalition's blog made the claim that Obama's speech would result in teachers directing school children "to do volunteer work in the areas which he is concerned about: going to rallies and getting their parents to go with them to support universal health care; encouraging their Members of Congress to vote for Obama's huge tax increase schemes."
The fundamentalist OneNewsNow posted several pieces against Obama's speech. One was titled, "Mother Fears Obama School Speech Will Be 'Indoctrination Into Socialism.'" Another title said, "Obama's School Speech—Social Indoctrination?"
A 2010 gubernatorial candidate and member of Woodlake Assembly of God, Brogdon said he was worried that Obama might address "environmental conservation and other social issues. These are topics for parents to talk about with their children, not the President of the United States."
The founder of the American Family Policy Institute urged parents to boycott the president's speech accusing Obama of wanting to "brainwash" American school children and comparing his administration to the "leaders of the Hitler Youth,"
Look -- a long time ago I came to the conclusion that the most religiously infected are the most ignorant and uneducated people on the face of the planet. The only thing that surprises me is that I underestimated their racism, utter idiocy, capacity for hate, fear and their disdain for thought.
Meanwhile, search as I may, I can find no examples of atheists, Humanists, agnostics, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Satanists, Wiccans or any one besides Evangelical Fundamentalist Christians condemning Obama for his wanting to encourage our children to be educated.
I’m convinced that when they say “God’s will be done,” it means ”God wills you to abandon all dignity and reason, O ye mind slaves of superstition.”
* http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=14826
Enjoying the reads, Dromedary :) Dare I appear to be a pedant, I think you wanted to say "disdain" as opposed to "distain". "Distain" works when describing an attempt to disgrace something, but "disdain" is what you want when describing a contemptuous attitude. Take care... and keep nudging that nose ;-)
ReplyDeleteAnon..Nice catch!! Thank you.
ReplyDeleteHump
It's disgusting and disturbing that so many idiots didn't want "the black president" to "indoctrinate" their children. Presidents past, from both major parties, have spoken to school children without the kind of hatred aimed at President Obama. All these people had to do was read the president's speech (assuming that they CAN read), which was available beforehand, to see that there was nothing in it that went against their pristine "Christian values." But if I were a f--king idiot, a well-educated, duly elected man encouraging critical thinking and asking children to stay in school beyond the 4th grade would scare the sh-t outta me too.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I check my calendar just to see what year this is.
Rachelle,
ReplyDeleteI really do think so much of it is race based. They want him to be foeign born. They wwant him to be a Muslim. They want him to be a socialist/communist...so that they can use it as a "legitimate" basis for their hate.
But it comes down to race, and their own stupidity.
Wouldn't it be great if it turned our a historical figure named Jesus was black and gay?
Hell... I'd sign up for it just so I could laugh at these ignorant sheep a they go running out the church door.
Notice... none of these morons have uttered a word of retraction or apology. Truth and honesty means nothing to these people. And they claim THEY are the "moral" ones.
See - that's what I was wishing would happen. That someone in a position to do so would call these idiots out.
ReplyDelete"So can you explain to us why you said this, when the speech was merely encouraging kids to stay in school?"
I don't care much what political affiliation The President has, but as an elected leader of a large nation and arguably the most powerful person in the world, it's a pretty cool moment when he talks to you, and if it's of encouragement, it's even better.
Also, I don't care what political party the detractors are from. If they have a good point, I'll listen. If it's hateful propaganda crap, I'll call it as I see it.
I much enjoy your blog Drom. Would you mind if I quote/link to it on occasion? Naturally with references back to you/your blog.
You're always right on the mark, Hump. LOL!
ReplyDeleteRev,
ReplyDeleteThanks, and sure, feel free to quote what you like from here.
Rachelle,
that makes two of us ;)
Hump
Hello Hump,
ReplyDeleteThe level of stupidity that the ultra right religious can degrade to never cease to amaze me.
God's the chief bigot, ya know. We've all seen him flying around the sky with a rebel flag on his sun chariot.
ReplyDeleteI really like your views on things. you and I are very much alike. I tend to rant a little like you do, as i will probably do in this comment. You know what i've noticed? The people we call "believers" often cannot stand those that do not believe in religion or god and they can't accept that others might have different thoughts than they do. The same cannot be said for the other way around, from what i've noticed at least. In my opinion, people can believe whatever they want. I mean, it's called free will, isn't it? but they should not force thos beliefs on others. A video came to my attention just minutes ago that i thought might be interesting to share. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEQuW2v6U2o&feature=channel_page This video shows a lot of people standing in the streets with signs that say things like "god hates fags" and "homo sex is a threat to national security". This all took place during a gay marriage celebration in San Fransisco. Some people were yelling accross the street that the homosexuals would burn in hell and that it was wrong for them to be gay, etc. I think it would be best to watch the video to get the full effect, but i would just like to say how upset it made me to see all these intollerant and even cruel people. Hope my input was helpful in any way.
ReplyDeleteTalya Michon
I heard recently an interview with Max Blumenthal on NPR about his new book, Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement That Shattered the Party, that "traces the rise of the Radical Right and how it captured control of the GOP and turned it into the party of Sarah Palin."
ReplyDeleteMax Blumenthal found a 1959 letter written by Republican President Dwight Eisenhower fifty years ago to a dying World War II veteran, issuing a warning against the rise of extremist movements within his own Republican party. During his presidency, Eisenhower endured attacks by Senator Joseph McCarthy, the radical right John Birch Society and others. Eisenhower wrote, “Many prominent officials, possessing no standing or expertness as they themselves claim it, attempt to further their own ideas or interests by resorting to statements more distinguished by stridency than by accuracy.” In addition, President Eisenhower recommended a book by Eric Hoffer (a self-educated dockworker) with the central thesis of Hoffer’s book, The True Believer; is that faith in a holy cause is really a substitute for lost faith in us.
This last bit made a lot of sense to me why these legions of right wingnuts exist… These are mostly people who have LOST their self esteem (or never had it to begin with) and are ripe to the manipulations of the likes of Dobson, Robertson, Falwell, Ahmanson Jr (leader of Prop 8), etc. For a “higher holy cause”. And it is a sad commentary on the failure of USA society that so many of these people exist.
Here is the link to a fascinating read:
http://www.alternet.org/politics/142451/republican_gomorrah:_inside_the_movement_that_shattered_the_party/?page=3
- Fastthumbs
Talya,
ReplyDeletewelcome. thanks for that input.
Like you, I have noproblem with theists who follow their beliefs and do not impose them on others. It's the religionists who insist we follow their definition of morality, handed down by pre-scientific, masogenistic, controllng cultists and shaman that gets me energized.
We on the other hand, represent a threat to their faith. If we are allowed to voice our reason and reality and if science continues to diminish their fables, they are destine for extinction. They know and fear this. It's already happened in Europe, it's happening here.
Fastthumbs--
as always, an elucidating comment. i'm going to check out that link. Thanks.
Hump
TO ALL READERS OF ATHEIST CAMEL BLOG:
ReplyDeleteJason Boyett, my Christian blogger / writer friend has posted a request for some input from atheists and agnostics.
He would appreciate our [dignified] and introspective feedback on his blog posting of Sept 16. Please visit his site and share your thoughts.
http://blog.jasonboyett.com/2009/09/feedback-on-faith-or-lack-thereof.html
Thanks.
Happy to help Jason out. :)
ReplyDeleteRachelle,
ReplyDeleteI saw, nice job.
Hump
Hump...You supply "food for thought" that would give the average theist indigestion or a full-blown stomachache. LOL! For us non-believers, it's a sweet treat. LOL! Consider me a fan. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd yet there are people denying that there is any racism in these issues. I have seen people deny it on several blogs.
ReplyDeleteSo far, none of them have come here, but keep an eye out.
Rachelle,
ReplyDeleteCareful... I may fall in love ;)
Bob,
Yes, they will deny it ... they will hide be hide the flag, and invoke their right of free speech.
Certainly not all of them are racist, but from the crap I've seen since before the election to now, I am convinced the majority of the most vocal and unthinking just can't deal with a Black president leading this nation.
btw...nice post to Jason's site.
Hump
Hump,
ReplyDeleteDo you plan to have Jason give a similar request to his readership for some input from Chistians and theists to post here why they reject or converted FROM atheism?
- Fastthumbs
Fast Thumbs,
ReplyDeleteI don't think so. I considered it, but dismissed it. I don't think there are many mysteries about what drives religiosity, and has for eons. We've heard it all before.
Understanding the relion meme, parental and cultural indoctrination, the need for a social or psychological crutch, and hope for life after death and/or a "higher power" to guide them etc, etc. --- anything else would largely be a variation on those themes.
Remember, we've been hearing their justification for belief in supernatural forever... often against our will. They, on the otherhand, have not been exposed to the 14% of the population that are non-believers, and our reasoning for it, until very recently.
Thanks
Hump
Hey all,
ReplyDeleteJust a few questions.
1) Do you think that even if some of these people are racists (undoubtedly some are) that it is their racism that is driving them? After all didn't they give Clinton the same type of treatment? Do you not think they would give anyone from the left the same treatment?
2) Do any of you believe the Sam Harris claim that Obama told him that he is really an atheist, he just lies about it so he is electable? And if so perhaps he just lied to Sam for his vote. Sam seems like a very honest person and I have no reason to think he would lie, but a polotician on the other hand...
zarton
p.s. I just blogged on Jasons page for ya hump
Zar,
ReplyDeleteNo..i thik what we are witnessing is unique.
Clinton was never refused access to addressing school kids. His country of birth, his religion was never questioned (i.e. muslim!!); he was never called "the anti-christ" in emails and Xtian websites before the election. You'll never find a poster of Clinton with a Hitleresque moustace etc. carried through the streets; or references to "Monkey" as you can see on the news bradcasts.
It's too far beyond the vitriol Clinton was dealt to be simply based on political ideology / affiliation.
I never heard the Sam Harris thing. I'll have to google it. I doubt he's lying if he really said it, but if he did I think it is irresponsible for him to repeat it if it was said to him in confidence. It's not Sam Harris' or anyones place to "out" anyone.
Zar,
ReplyDeleteI can't find anything about Harris saying Obama told him he's atheist.
all I can find is harris' article from last sept on the Huffington Post. But he doesn't make that claim.
Have you got a source with a link?
Yes Hump,
ReplyDeleteSo sorry, I should have included that in my post. I got it from a Penn says episode from youtube. Also let me say that I misspoke, Harris only claimed that Obama expressed serious doubts about his faith and never claimed to be a full fledged atheist. Here is the link, check it out and let me know what you think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccfqpwfvYmw
It's from season 1 episode 01031. I had another source also, but it has slipt my squirrel sized brain. If I remember it I will pass it on.
Thanks,
zarton
Zar,
ReplyDeleteAh..ok.. well, that's a big difference.
Speculating on someones religiosity, or lack there of is waay different than actually being in possession of Obama's admission he's atheist.
Yeah, my bad. Also do you think that an atheist could ever get elected president or any high office? Wasn't Gov. Ventura an agnostic or at least something close? I know he called organized religion a sham for the weak-minded in a playboy interview. And I think he had the highest aproval rating of any governor.
ReplyDeleteZar:
ReplyDeleteFollowing is an extract from this site http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm
"A March, 2007 survey done by Newsweek shows that 62% of people would refuse to vote for any candidate admitting to being an atheist. ... The only positive results from this survey were that 68% of the people felt that atheists could be moral — but this begs the question of why people won't vote for atheists. "
Pew poll shows similar results..50% wouldnt vote for an atheist. You can't win a high public office with 50-68% OF potential voters already against you before you open your mouth.
Obviously, there are states that would be more tolerant than the aggregate, hence some exceptions to the rule.
But the trend toward acceptence is shiftsing. In 30 years this could be a non issue.
Yeah, I recall looking at similar stats. Hitchens tends to think otherwise (not sure the reason for his optimism). I think that in a decade or two the question should be obsolete.
ReplyDeletezar
Hello Hump,
ReplyDeleteYou said it very well when you stated that you underestimated their racism, utter idiocy, capacity for hate, fear and their disdain for thought. For those whom proclaim that they believe and follow the teachings of Jesus, one who preached Love, Forgiveness, Non-Violence, DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WANT TO HAVE DONE TO YOU. Yet these are the same people who have lynched blacks, screaming out just to simply disrupt our Democratic Process, not even recognizing many science facts.
We are now seeing Fanatical Religious fractions pushing the extremes of social sanity…All in the name of Love for our fellow man, and Forgiveness of others? Quite a hypocritical group don’t you think?
Eng,
ReplyDeleteYes. Hypocricy is a veritable sacrament to these Christians.
They've been practicing it since Chrisianity's inception, thus had almost 2,000 years to perfect it.
Hi There Dromeday :-)
ReplyDeleteI've poured through your book and found it incredibly inspiring and well reasoned.
This is a more general question which I hope might inspire a future post, or a phone call (603-437-5489)
Quickly about me... I'm an (1) atheist; (2) psychologist; (3) fellow New Hampshire citizen; (4) person of influence (I have over 100,000 followers in both marketing and personal development markets, though none specifically in the theistic/atheistic debate)
I've not been an aggressive or activist atheist to this point in my life, partly because I haven't been convinced of the ethics of tearing away the fabric of most people's security, however false a premise it may rest upon.
I suppose you could equate this with Kurt Vonnegut's dictum (from Cat's Cradle) "People should live by the myths which make them happy and kind"
My wife is more on the agnostic side of the equation, and a strong proponent of the "happy and kind myth" philosophy.
The last reason I've been reluctant to become an "activist" atheist is because I'm not facile with the arguments and methods required to debunk fundamental, or even Deist reasoning.
I'm confident in their falsehood, as each time I investigate any particular one of them I find logic prevails, but I haven't the time to memorize and become fluent in the necessary reasoning to derail the insanity of the theist position. (And unlike many other atheists, I was actually lucky enough to be raised by an atheist, so I also don't have the same resentment and aggressive need to debunk it in order to escape it for MYSELF)
In recent years, however, it's become clear to me that religion is dangerous, and I'm leaning more towards activism.
So I guess my question for you is essentially this...
What is your response to Vonnegut's proposition that we should all live by the myths which keep us happy and kind? (My hunch is you'll say religious myths don't foster kindness, rather hatred... but my experience is they foster BOTH... what says you Mr. Camel?)
I'm also curious to learn more about how you peacefully co-exist in a long term (presumably stable) marriage to a theist.
And last, time permitting, I was puzzled by a very minor contradiction in your book.
In the initial post, you declared you were NOT a skeptic, that you rejected God out of hand. (I found this boldness quite inspiring).
Yet towards the end, you mentioned you never would take up a 100% certain position, suggesting your belief left room for perhaps <= 0.00004% doubt.
Does that make you the world's most skeptical agnostic rather than an atheist? (I personally like the 100% certain position better, though I've not read widely enough to support it so I tend towards the 0.000004% position myself)
Hi Glenn, and welcome.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the compliment on my book. Glad you enjoy it.
I'm happy to answer your very good questions. lets start with the first one:
"What is your response to Vonnegut's proposition that we should all live by the myths which keep us happy and kind? (My hunch is you'll say religious myths don't foster kindness, rather hatred... but my experience is they foster BOTH... what says you Mr. Camel?)"
I have two perspectives on this one question. The first is that if man lived by myths that simply made him happy, what would have inspired questioning of the myths, investigation into alternative realities, discovery, and and the advancement of science? What would have inspired Copurnicus, or galeleo et al to break from those happy myths to investigate the truths of the solor system?
Myth stunts rather than inspires civilization to advance intellectually, technologically, and scientifically.
The second part of my answer is this -- if your neighbor down the street is happy then let him believe whatever myth he likes as long as it doesn't impede on my rights to be free from the precepts of his myth. As for making people kind, I reject that myth makes people kind (you predicted I'd say that.) There are waaaay too many examples of how myth, be it religiously or politically inspired(i.e. Aryan Superman) causes great harm. If ignorance promotes bliss / happiness/kindness... then accepting myth as a guide to ones life is assurance you will at least be ignorant. Whether the rest follow is always in question.
Myth does more evil than good, inspite of man's best intentions for those myths.
#2: "I'm also curious to learn more about how you peacefully co-exist in a long term (presumably stable) marriage to a theist."
Yep, happily married to the same woman for 39 years. While she calls herself Episcopal she is about as close to agnostic as one can get . In the 43 years I've known her I never heard her mention jesus, except when she swears at me :) Thus, while she holds some vauge belief in some god like being, she is so religion-lite as to be nontheist form all intents and purposes. Maybe she's a deist and doesn't realize it.
In all our years we've never had an argument about religion, and she accepts our two sons' atheism as a normal thing, a decision adults make.
Finally #3: "towards the end, you mentioned you never would take up a 100% certain position, suggesting your belief left room for perhaps <= 0.00004% doubt.
Does that make you the world's most skeptical agnostic rather than an atheist?"
I am not an absolutist. It's my experience that only theists have 100% certainity on theories,, hypotheses, "beliefs".
I have to be open to the possibility that evolutinary theory could be totally wrong. I'll reserve 0.00000001% chance of that. That's the same degree of potential wrongness I reserve for my rejection of a God/gods concept.
Now, that doesn't mean I do not accept Evolutionary Theory. I do. I will continue to accept it as the most rational, realistic, and scientifically supported answer for the origin of species unless and until it is replaced by a better theory with better evidence.
Similarly it doesn't mean that I am not an atheist because I reserve .000000001% openess to my being in error. I don't say "we cannot know, thus I'm agnostic" I say, "there is no reasonable evidence for the existence of the supernatural, either experiential or scientific, thus I cannot accept the concept of God/gods as genuine." I "have no belief" (dictionary def. of atheist) in God/gods thus I am atheist.
Dawkins said something along the lines of -- if one lives one's life as though no God/gods exist, then he is an atheist. That's a good rule of thumb.
Glad to have a fellow New Hampshirite here. Hope you'll visit and comment often.
Regards,
Hump
Dromedary,
ReplyDeleteHow delightful it is to receive your well thought through reply so quickly.
Your points on the dangers of accepting myth are well taken, and I appreciate the ammunition.
It brings me that much closer to the conclusion that an aggressive attack against all things irrational is warranted, and perhaps even an ethical obligation.
Reason is the only source of knowledge (Ayn Rand), and there's nothing on the mind which was not first on the senses, right? (I forget who said the latter)
It's a pleasure to meet you,... and thanks again.
You've certainly won another fan and supporter in NH ... I'll spread the word shortly.
All my best,
Dr. G :-)
Glenn,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your kind comments. Look forward to your participation.
If you're ever over here on the west side of the state let me know, would love to meet you.
Regards,
Hump
(Ps: Aristotle was the one who said- "There is nothing in the mind that is not first in the senses," I Googled it :)
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Are you KIDDING ME??!! These parents should be happy that a grown man was actually telling their kids that staying in school was the right thing to do.
ReplyDeleteBut gettin' a learnin' is so evul.
As others have said, I think their outrage is more a case of racism than the actual content of his message. How dare a black man tell a white person what the best course of action is?
We need an atheist president.