Tuesday, October 20, 2009

Why do religious fanatics WANT to be hated? Here’s your answer.

Some years ago I participated in a religious debate chat room on MSN that had as a frequent visitor a patently insane fundamentalist Christian. I do not throw the term “insane” around lightly. An admitted schizophrenic, sexually abused as a child, she was and likely still is, suffering from schizophrenia induced hyper-religiosity. She called herself “TruthTeller,” a remarkably ironic tag.

This woman spoke with God, and God spoke to her. Literally. She spoke on and off in Old English, ala the King James Bible translation, spewing out verse, ranting about “gnashing of teeth,” “all knees will bend,” “He will come with a sword in his mouth,” etc., etc., condemning anyone to Hell, believers and non-believers alike, for failing to believe or interpret scripture as she saw it. Oh, she also claimed to despise religion, which of course meant she hated all other sects/denominations of Christianity except her own personal brand. No matter how often she was dismissed, thrown out, and derided as a troll and provocateur, she kept coming back. She thrived on the agitation she caused and abuse she received for it.

I’ve met this kind of internet troll on and off over the years. They have often been fodder for my blog, and occasionally provide me the inspiration to research various scriptural interpretations, and causes for aberrant extremist behaviors among believers.

Recently I came across another Christian who exhibits similar traits. The only Young Earth Hard Core Fundamentalist in a discussion group almost exclusively comprised of freethinkers, he seems obsessed with atheists and provoking outrage with inane and inflammatory declarations. Many of the things he says are so extreme, so completely outrageous, and so blatantly stupid that in all likelihood he doesn’t recognize that his dialogue does more to discredit Christianity than promote it… but that wouldn’t make a difference to him even if he was cognizant of it.

You see, what I have come to realize is that these troll-Christian-proselytizing-fanatics all have one thing in common: the desire to be hated. They want to be abused. They thrive on having insults thrown at them, their statements discredited, even being banned from a group or chat room. But why? What possible benefit comes from such a mindset? What is the impetus for this behavior? Well, here’s the answer:

“Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.” Luke 6: 22- 23 (NIV)

Understand how these internet fanatical trolls interpret this verse: by being the one gadfly of illogic & gross ignorance; by offering offensive and irrational statements, they incur the wrath of the thinking unsaved by provoking our insults, or by being “excluded,” banned / or dismissed. In this way they will be rewarded in heaven like a martyr. By inducing hatred and animosity they are seeking assurance of eternal salvation. They perceive Luke 6 to be encouraging this behavior.

One can imagine that Fred Phelps’ extremist actions and position on homosexuality isn’t simply based on what gays do behind closed doors being offensive to his God. After all, if God existed and wanted to end homosexuality, he could do so in a second. No, Fred is feathering his nest in heaven by being despised by every thinking person on the planet.

Intentionally provoking anger and discord isn’t what Luke had in mind. But to the unstable whack jobs whose only goal in life is to attain Heaven, whose greatest fear is to be “left behind,” this is all perfectly sensible. Annoying and pretty creepy, but then being an annoying creep IS in the best tradition of religious extremist delusion.


BathTub said...

Sounds like you are talking about Ray Comfort. He fits your description pretty well.

Along with his cronies like The Law Man Tony, if you check his blog he even contemplated dragging his Cross to a funeral and preaching outside the church it was in, he decided he didn't want to look too much like phelps so he moved away a block to two.

NewEnglandBob said...

That passage, of course, was written to appeal to the downtrodden and depressed by telling them their rewards will be in the afterlife. Its intention is to fool the broadest possible audience into following the religion and promising them virtually nothing in return.

The malcontents and the mentally disturbed as well as the malicious simply use it for their own purposes.

There is a saying in New England that if one does not like the current weather, just wait five minutes for it to change. The analogy here is that if you do not like a certain bible passage then look around a bit and you can find another one that can be misinterpreted.

Anonymous said...

The passages in Luke 6: 22- 23 is not saying for a person who follows Christ Jesus to act the way you said that woman was acting. That woman if she was acting the way you described was wrong to be acting that way. A true follower of Christ Jesus does not act the way you stated that woman was acting.

What Jesus is saying in these verses is that when someone like me, who proclaims to you that Christ Jesus is Lord God over everyone whether or not the people believe He is, will most likely hate the person proclaiming that Christ is Lord God over them.

So, in all likelihood, you or some of you will turn to hate me (or already do) even though I’ve not provoked you in any way whatsoever other than to proclaim to you Christ Jesus is Lord God over all the earth and creation.

Some people just "say" they are a Christian? http://bit.ly/ui3eH

My Personal Relationship with Christ Jesus: http://tinyurl.com/yk8n6jb

Anonymous said...

Hump, Interesting hypothesis...

Is there a way to determine if indeed the theistic whack jobs have this specific verse in mind (or fess up to having this) when they go out of their way trolling blogs and chartrooms?


If you can carried on a reasoned and logical conversation as to why you call yourself a Christian, most of us here would be happy to engage you. On the other hand, if you start preaching, insulting, trollish rants, then yes we will for the most part feel pity (and irritation) towards you and I'm sure you'd get banned by the Camel. Explore this blog a little bit more and you'd actually see the camel respecting some believers, even if he doesn't buy into the beliefs (search for Joyce or Jason for example.)

- Fastthumbs

Dromedary Hump said...

I have no reason to hate you. Hopefully that doesn't disappoint you.

Feel free to comment here as long as you follow the simple and reasonable guidlines Fastthumb pointed out. And it would be nice if you had a real name.

As for the intent of Luke.. Yes, thank you... I know what the verse's intent was.
I am telling you, however, that there are Christans who will use verse, any verse, to mean what they want it to mean. Think snake handlers. Think suborning slavery.
Think abusing gays, or killing children as witches in Africa. The examples are unending.

So, now -- all you have to do, Anon, is explain what you told me to all your whack job fundamentalist christian bretheren who interpret Luke to endorse generating animosity as a ticket to heaven.

let me know how that works for you.
Oh, by the way...that woman Truthteller would tell you that YOU are not a "true Christian." It seems that's a favored tact among so many Christians.


No objective evidence for it, only anecedotal and circumstantial evidence based on long term observation.

When one of these nuts says "I want you to hate me", "I glory in your hate for me" or "why don't you just kick me out?" all of which I have witnessed, it tends to infer that their enthusiasm isn't directed toward the usual proselytizing, but something more.

Afterall, even a fundie with an IQ of 70 understands that the potntial to attract converts by slinging insulting and mindless idiocy at them day after day is little to none.

Lets call it my hypothesis born of long term empirical observation, and knowledge of how frequently believers interpret scripture stupidly.


Tracey said...

I've always had my own theories about the quoted scripture. It's one of those that keeps the poor from murdering the rich.

Rachelle said...

When the crazy religious get THIS absurd...I find it easier to laugh at them or ignore them. LOL! I figure they just want attention...cuz some of the things they say are just too batsh-t crazy to NOT laugh at. Why hate someone who has a mental illness or who can't reason or understand logic?? I pity them. Of course, some of the words that religious zealots spew turn my stomach or give me a headache...But I can remedy that by walking away or logging off. LOL! It's fruitless to debate those who aren't even "wrong." It's like trying to have an intelligent conversation with a snail. LOL!

tlnoel said...

Anon said: "A true follower of Christ Jesus does not act the way you stated that woman was acting."

Tracey says: There's the "no true Scotsman" argument again. Whenever Believer A sees or hears of Believer B acting in an unbecoming manner, Believer A is quick to proclaim that Believer B is not a christian, not a follower of christ, and all other manner of things to distance him/herself from Believer B. According to your bible, all one has to do to be a christian is believe in your Jesus. That's it. Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. -- John 3:36
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. -- John 6:47
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. -- Acts 16:31

Anon said: "What Jesus is saying in these verses is that when someone like me, who proclaims to you that Christ Jesus is Lord God over everyone whether or not the people believe He is, will most likely hate the person proclaiming that Christ is Lord God over them. So, in all likelihood, you or some of you will turn to hate me (or already do) even though I’ve not provoked you in any way whatsoever other than to proclaim to you Christ Jesus is Lord God over all the earth and creation."

Tracey says: This is an empty argument. What have you to authenticate your translation of this scripture? Also, let's talk about proclaimations that your jesus is lord and your failure to understand how that provokes ill will toward you. When I am in the privacy of my own home and people show up uninvited to "proclaim the good news" they are indeed provoking my wrath. I do not invade their privacy to proclaim that there is no skydaddy. I'd appreciate it if they'd show me the same respect. Same with the parking lot proseltyzers, the chick tracts under the wiper blades, all of that. Leave me alone. I don't bother you, so quit bothering me.

Anon said: :Some people just "say" they are a Christian? http://bit.ly/ui3eH:

Tracey says: Yeah, there goes the "they aren't really christians" bit again. I checked the website. The author is right. Atheists who were at one time xtians do not claim to have ever had a "close, personal relationship" with your jesus. Know why? Because there is no jesus with whom to have any relationship, close and personal or otherwise. That's why you'll never hear one of us say that.

Dromedary Hump said...


The serpent was right said...

I post on topix on a pretty regular basis. I have witnessed the behaviour that you mention time and time again. I am not saying ALL fundies are like this, but it seems to me there are a growing number out there(no pun intended), that aren't trying to convert, but rather are trying to drive away anyone who may be curious about their belief. Generally, I find the outragous behaviour amusing.

Dromedary Hump said...

The serpent,

Yes, it can be amusing until it becomes disruptive to genuine discourse.

On the upside I suppose it distracts them from bombing abortion clinics, and disrupting homosexuals' funerals. ;-)


Rachelle said...

Cheers...It's definitely better to have those idiots in front of their computer screens than in the streets bothering people.

You're far more patient with debating the religious zealots than I am Hump. LOL! I would get too frustrated with the extremists.

Here's how I see a debate in simple terms. LOL!:

Fact/"right": 5x5= 25

Fiction/"wrong": 5x5= 80

"Not even wrong"/complete and utter nonsense: 5x5= chocolate mousse cake (yum! LOL!)

I can debate with those who fall into the first two groups...but not with those who fall into the last one. Consider that last group the extremely religious nutjobs. Nothing rational you say will make sense to them or get them thinking differently...Only certain medications can do that.

Dromedary Hump said...


Quite right. But, don't misunderstand... once I realize that I am engaging with a "5x5 = chocolate cake" fundie nut I disengage.

My time is too valuable to waste with deluded imbeciles with a salvation agenda. If you can't learn from debate, or use it to teach, then it is a pointless exercise.


bobsully said...

great insight as usual Hump. I always find the successful conversation edifying.

Rachelle said...

LOL! Cheers Hump. :)

@GospelToday said...

So you "say" you are a Christian? http://bit.ly/ui3eH

Mike Wilson said...

Do we really care what the athiest harps about?

They don't believe in God but spend their whole lives objecting to Him.
How is that going by the way?

The withered male member...er Dick (Penis) Dawkins, otherwise referred to as the son of a back alley "Knee Trembler" in some dark continent just makes his money writing to accomodate the athiest.

The true athiest does not need to object to something they don't believe in.

When a athiest cries out in the wilderness, do they make a sound?
Doe anyone of faith really care?
Who in the world gives a toss?
Dick had no known skills, he could not make a legitimate living but seized on attacking the one who gave him nothing by railing against Him.
The afterlife will be wonderful without "Dick" Dawkins and his ilk.
But may God still bless you athiests and as always hope that the prodigal will come home.

NewEnglandBob said...

Ah, nonsense from an incoherent troll: Mike Wilson, who just froths out sputum with no points or logic. Typical ignorant god swallower.

Dromedary Hump said...

Well, Mike..I guess YOU care, else why would you bother to post on an old blog article? :)

I think you fear that your own faith is so weak that the rationality of atheism is a threat to you. We've seen it before. It's ok Mike. No one will try and preventyou from keeping the remnants of your supernatural delusion.

Atheists only raille against fundamentalists who seek to rewrite history, dumb down schools, impede scientific advancement, impose their religion on our government and into peoples private lives. Otherwise douchbags like you might make this a theocracy.

As for your repeated "dick" references...two questions:
1) do you kiss Jesus with that filthy mouth?
2) does worshipping an imaginary Dick Diety embue you with special skills to determine who is and isn't a dick?

I'm guessing yes on both counts.