Friday, January 1, 2010

The Obscenity of Christian Apologetics


I stumbled across an apologetics website ironically dubbed “Rational Christianity.” In it the writer sets up challenges to certain biblical passages from hypothetical believers who express their concern for the cruelty of the bible. He then commences to explain away these horrific acts in a manner that is meant to placate the concerns of the supposed questioning believer. http://www.rationalchristianity.net/genocide.html

One particular set of questions and answers stunned me. In examining the genocidal destruction of a neighboring tribe by the Israelites, the straw man questioner asks: "What about the children --Why did they in their innocence have to die?"

Here is the “Rational Christian’s” explanation: “Why were the children killed, if they weren't guilty? Apparently, they were considered as morally neutral, since they weren't yet old enough to be held accountable or to have done much right or wrong. While not as corrupt as their parents, they were part of the society that was judged, and shared its earthly (though not its eternal) fate.” “… when a person or a society committed massive evil, that evil was punished by the destruction of the entire family or city; in such cases, only those who had actively demonstrated their integrity could be saved … “

So in a nut shell, the children were too young to be guilty or corrupt in the eyes of God. But, they were unlucky enough to have been born to parents and into a culture that offended God so he killed them all. But not to worry, the dead kids get to go to a fun afterlife versus their parents who will be punished even after death. So it’s all good.

This isn’t the worst of it. The next question was: Couldn't the children have died painlessly -- In fact couldn’t God have just taken them up to heaven and spared them from physical death?"

The “Rational Christian” answers: “Since the children lived in a world affected by sin, they faced its earthly consequences … only a few righteous people were translated into heaven, namely Enoch and Elijah. As noted above, since the children had not shown themselves to be righteous, they were not spared the common fate of death.”

“It's worth noting that being killed with a sword (perhaps beheaded) was at the time one of the quickest ways for the children to die as opposed to suffocation/strangulation, starvation, disease or being torn apart by wild animals…”

So there you have it. If only the infants and toddlers had done something, acted overtly, to demonstrate their righteousness, then God would have spared them. If instead of sucking dumbly at their mothers’ breasts and spending their days soiling their diapers they had just taken it upon themselves to worship the god of Abraham, or kept kosher, or hadn’t worn mixed fiber swaddling clothes, or perhaps if they had stoned a homosexual or two to death, then God would have deemed them worthy of being spared the death penalty. But no ... they didn’t rise to the occasion. They paid with their short lives.

But not to worry, it’s all good!! Chopping the head off of a baby after all was one of the quickest ways to kill it. Well, that and smashing its head against a stone wall. No muss, no fuss. I mean, isn’t it obvious how merciful God was? Heck, he could have sent bears to tear them apart and didn’t. (God has done that to children before, but only once and only 42 of them.)

Note the business like matter of fact replies. Note the absence of anything approaching horror, sadness, or wonderment at such callous inhuman treatment by a supposedly merciful loving god. Instead, we get a dispassionate justification for mass infanticide; a strident defense of an indefensible act that would disgust and horrify any normal, thinking, moral human being.
When Herod kills Jewish children it’s called “The Slaughter of the Innocents.” When their God kills pagan children it’s fully understandable and righteous. Obscene.

I can’t help but wonder if people like this actually believe their apologetics. Maybe they are just compelled to defend the faith no matter how grotesque and horrific it may be. That, or I underestimated the ability of the religious to delude themselves. I’m glad I lack that mental infirmity.

38 comments:

NewEnglandBob said...

This, of course is xenophobia run amok. It is typical of the lack of any morals by Christian apologetics. As Christopher Hitchens says "Religion Poisons Everything".
Steven Weinberg's famous quote: "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion".

Dromedary Hump said...

I agree with Weinberg. I'll take it a step further--

A Religionist who will stand behind this kind of apologetic, who won't disclaim it and call the scripture what it is... an example of mans' brutality using a god figure as justification ... don't even posses a modicum of human dignity.

Stein said...

I confronted my very "religious" aunt about the child murder in the old testament. She is the type of Christian with little knowledge but great passion of what she believe in.

As I quoted from Isaiah 13:15-18 and Ezekiel 9:5-7 to name some, she went in to denail. When I showed it to her, she went in to anger. Then stubborn resentment where I was told that I as a human couldn't possibly judge gods actions.

When given the chance I like to bring up these passages in the old sadistic horror book, just to see Christians choke on the words I quote. I have a feeling this is not a topic discussed regulary at their bible meeting.

Contents under pressue said...

It doesn't even have to be children.

As far as I'm concerned, any attempt in justifying the complete eradication of any community just because they live differently than others is an exercise in futility.

At the risk of commoting a Godwin, I see no difference between Christian Apologetics for religiously-motivated killings in the bible, the excuses conjured up by the Waffen SS officers who underwent the Nuremberg trials, or the drivel espoused by the rebels responsible for the 1994 Rwanda Massacre.

Genocide is, and will always be, wrong.

Rastifan said...

Contents under pressue - I couldn't agree more. Apologetics attempts to perfume the issue is in a recent case demonstrated on YouTube where a Christian "on web cam" tries to pass on slavery in the bible as "Good Slavery". Can you believe that? Which of course I qouted. Exodus 21:20-21

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

He removed the video after awail. No wonder judging from the response he got.

Incest, slavery, rape, genicide, human sacriface and cold blooded murder. Christian apologetics will attempt to excuse everything they normally would go red faced over.

Which brings me back to Steven Weinberg's qoute mentioned above. "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion".

DM said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Rastifan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rastifan said...

DM - tsk tsk language. The topic is incest, slavery, rape, genicide, human sacriface and cold blooded murder. Basically the most despicable crimes sanctioned in the bible and by your god.

Surely you must have feelings towards this. Please feel free to share them with us.

The serpent was right said...

DM said: "do you think you are RIGHT and they are all WRONG?"

Jim Jones would have LOVED someone like you. 98% of those folks not only drank the kool-aid, but forced their kids to drink it too!!

At one time, 98% of the civilized world believed in Zeus(jupiter) and all the other greek/ Roman gods too. Were they right?

Useing the crowd to justify your belief is a mighty sad statement.



Now, for the topic at hand. I often ask those whom are rabidly religious... Who makes up the rules for god? Apparently god can't follow his own rules, but he has SOME rules he must follow. For instance, god cannot simply forgive and forget. Something has to die. Think of Cain and Able. The one who killed the baby sheep was smiled upon. Think of Abraham, he was willing to kill his own son!! Fortunately, that old trickster god (who claims to know everything in advance, like what is in the hearts of men) was just testing him. According to the Bible, animal sacrifice was the norm. Yes, to please god, "something had to die". Finally, god, living by the invisible rules, knocks up an unsuspecting girl, and kills his own offspring(I thouht we were ALL gods children, but that's another story). When presented with these "facts", the unrepentent sheep will no doubt say that god is smarter than us, and we shouldn't question his devine plan. I'm sure Charlie Mansons' followers felt the same way. Oh, but that's different isn't it?

Anonymous said...

Once on facebook I was told that God had all the Midianite women & male children slaughtered to 'protect' the Israelites from the women's 'lacivious' ways, and that 'take the girl children who have not known a man for yourselves' did not indicate sexual slavery... The fact this guy works with disadvantaged and vulnerable children in Indiana worried me greatly.

itsme_crazydad said...

I think gassing is as humane as beheading.

Who knew Hitler was as merciful as god?

Atheists, that's who.

Society of Chrisians for the Restoration of Old Testament Morality said...

That "rational Christian" is actually a cafeteria Christian. There is no age of accountability in the Bible. The real answer, of course, is that God does not answer to our ideas of morality:

Job 9:2-3: I know [it is] so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.

Rastifan said...

Society of Christians for the Restoration of Old Testament Morality is a crack pot site.

Quote.
Liberals have also corrupted our public schools to the extent that our precious children are taught that insects have six legs, when the Bible quite plainly states that they have four. Six, of course, is each of the digits of 666, the Mark of the Beast. Thus, it is clear that Satan, through liberals, has placed his hoof mark on our schools.

Well. Ants, bumble bees, cockroaches, flies and mosquitoes to name a few have 6 legs. Are these to be regarded as satanic creatures?

With that group in charge, I would hire bodyguards for my children. Well I got a good laugh.

Dromedary Hump said...

Well, How seriously can you take someone who comes here with a name spelled "Chrisian"?

I mean, if he had any intellect he'd spell it like the rest of us do "ChrisTian"... you know.. with a "T". But hey, if he had intellect he wouldn't be either a Chrisian or a Christian.

But beyond that his side stepping offering that "God does not answer to our ideas of morality:" is laughable.

Either God created man in His image, and thus the evils that men do are reflective of the evils God created man to do and had man do in the Bible... OR...
Man created God in his image, and Man has his God do exactly what man's nature is inclined to do.

You can't have it both ways. Naturally the latter of the two choices is the only logical answer.

If God doesn't share Man's sense of what is and isn't moral than how can any theist pretend to be moral in God's eyes. Or, maybe thats why Christians kill abortion drs., bomb clincs,and why Christian cultists tend to kill their followers ... they are just emulating their God's morality.

"Chrisian's" hackneyd attempt at an apologetic escape clause for his god's immorality and genocidal behavior is just another level of obscenity born of his delusion.

Dromedary Hump said...

Rast...

Heheh... I guess the things we call insects aren't insects but some kind of liberal invention intended to destroy the world.

Those damn satanic bees with their six satanic legs doing all that satanic pollination of our crops...clearly a plot by the devil to feed the planet, or defeat god....er..or something. LOL.

I guess if "Rational Christian" gets his theology from a "cafeteria", " Society of 'Chrisians', ect" get theirs from an asylum.

The serpent was right said...

If the creator of the rules of morality is god, and he can't live up to his own laws and rules, than he is a flawed god, and should not expect his own inferior creations to live up to them either.

In other words, how can the supreme sinner in "rightousness" judge the lesser sinner?

zarton said...

I love it, the Christians can allways do there mental backflips and say that "it is not your place to know gods mind" yet you are still supposed to get it right anyway.. precious. I am going to hold off my judgment of chrisians for now... although it is not looking good so far.
zar

Anonymous said...

"In other words, how can the supreme sinner in "rightousness" judge the lesser sinner?"

I'm not sure if I understand what this means. I can think of a great number of cases where flawed people can judge even more flawed people (juries and judges in a trial... they are no way "perfect" but they are judging the defendents and passing sentence) - so why would a supreme being have to be "perfect" in order to judge?

Now, of course the Christians (Moslems and Jews as well) hold their God as UNFLAWED AND PERFECT, and as pointed out has a ghastly record as portrayed in their holy scrolls and books. On the other hand, the Greek Pantheon is full of flawed Gods, yet the Greeks and later the Romans had no issue with their stories of passing judgement (Gods per the Greek myths were beings to be best avoided in general).

- Fastthumbs

the serpent was right said...

"I'm not sure if I understand what this means"

The key word is rightous. The Christian bible myth claims that only the rightous may judge. God, by his acts cannot be rightous, so he cannot judge.

Rastifan said...

Would like to add something concerning the "Society of Christians for the Restoration of Old Testament Morality".

Everyday 26 000 children are dying from famine. Every day. But this group is on the job when it comes to satanic teachings about 6 legged bugs.

Sorry for the somewhat juvenile comment, but that guy pissed me off.
And I corrected his "Chrisians" to Christians:)

Contents under pressue said...

Society of Christians for the Restoration of Old Testament Morality apparently had this among its links

http://www.heterodoxy.com/societyofchristians/how_to_rebuke_homosexuals.html

One word: POE

Dromedary Hump said...

Contents,

I read that link, it reads like a parody of a Christian site. I am amazed these people don't realize how funny those statements are.
two of my favorites are:

-- If the homosexual asks why the Bible is credible, point out where in the Bible it says so.

-- Say that homosexuality is unnatural because wild animals don’t do it.

AND THEN IT GOES ON...

-- When the homosexual points out wild animals that do it, say that wild animals are not a guide to morality for humankind


hahahahah!!!! This was written by someone who is coming very close to an IQ classification of cretin. As long as they stay that stupid, we will make progress.

Rastifan said...

Dromedary Hump – These types of Christians are too easy. It almost takes the joy out of nailing them with their own arguments. But only almost.
I’ve met the type before. You get a feeling of talking to kids. I firmly believe there are things living under rocks that are more reasonable than these people.

I read some of the site and gave up in despair. I really don’t want to sink to that level.

Jacquie said...

The irony for me is that they killed everyone including all the children because they were guilty of murder including child sacrifice.

the serpent was right said...

I actually went to that site. I am hopeing it is a parody site. I started to believe it was when I read that god hates rape victums.

Dromedary Hump said...

Serpent,

OOPs....I think you may be right, we've been Punked!!

The Society of Christians for the Restoration of Old Testament Morality is evidently a parody / humor site. Note it's listing here:

http://www.crank.net/humor.html

Damn atheists!!! :)

Rachelle said...

LOLOLOL!!! Good reading. LOL!

Rachelle said...

Check this article out...This guy "knows" when the rapture will occur. LOLOL!:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/01/01/BA8V1AV589.DTL&feed=rss.news

Dromedary Hump said...

Yeah...we plan to increase our Eternal Earth-Bound Pets post rapture pet rescue rates next year.

I sense a big rush.

Rastifan said...

I feel so used:)

But it was a good one I must admit. Had me completely going there. Even if something kept telling me. "Is this possible?”
The scary thing is that there are religious groups out there that easily surpass this little satire in madness, ignorance and sheer stupidity.

Contents under pressue said...

@Rasti

Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind. Fred Phelps is one evil man :(

Tidalgrrrl said...

I keep trying to laugh at Xtianists but it's too depressing.

Rastifan said...

@Contents under pressue

I’ve read a word or two about Fred Phelps. As insane and hateful as they are, they are nothing but lowly cockroaches. Just a family cult and no real danger. Even when they crash funerals. In one way I feel they contribute to show people what religion can do to you. So in a sense they are promoting the atheism cause:)

Glendon Mellow said...

Very cool image at the top of this post Camel. Who is it by?

Dromedary Hump said...

Glendon,

It's from the 14th century painting by Duccio di Buoninsegna entitled "The Slaughter of the Innocents"

Glendon Mellow said...

Thanks.

SHEKHAWATI sikar tourism hindi news said...

nice post

daily hindi news online newspaper said...

great info