Sunday, April 11, 2010

Criticized for my methods, Hump remains unrepentant


“… for me to use arrogant, derogatory language is counter productive to my motive for engaging [theists] in the first place. … if your goal in discoursing with theists is to get them to shut up and retreat in awe of your debate skills then, Hump, you have succeeded.” -- D.

The above is an extract from an exchange on Facebook with a well meaning atheist of the kinder gentler persuasion. His motive in engaging theists is to bring them to value the inherent truth in secular thought. A noble enterprise, one that I endorse, but only with those whose level of receptivity and intellect make them candidates for deprogramming.

This may not be apparent to certain freethinkers who erroneously assume all levels of believers are receptive to logic and will come around if only one is patient, genteel, and avuncular. A couple of decades of atheist activism have taught me otherwise -- this rationale is as faulty as a fundie trying to proselytize Richard Dawkins.

My response to this gentleman’s chastisement follows, revised and extended:
-------------------------------------

Dear D,

Most discourse I have with theists is civil and dispassionate. More often than not they are liberal/moderate theists who have accommodated acceptance of reality, social justice and science with their preferred supernatural beliefs. They are receptive to the “truths” of reality. However, that rarely makes for good blog or book fodder.

My "take no prisoner" method, which is substantially more entertaining to read, is reserved for those theists whose concepts are often dangerous to society or patently moronic. These are the fundamentalist's and those Christians who do not take the time to explore secular reality/science and reject it as being a threat to their belief system; who typically resort to absurdities, hackneyed platitudes, defunct apologetics, perversion of scripture and distortion of scientific theory to feed their agenda.

These people are not candidates for "sparking interest in choosing to value truth" as you so eloquently put it. These are people to whom "truth" (i.e. reality/reason) is the enemy, albeit, they are unable to perceive that through the fog of their delusion. They are due no respect, they are owed no platform, and their arguments are unworthy of my time or effort. If you believe that the likes of Kirk Cameron, Ray Comfort, Ted Haggard, Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, or those Christian fanatics, haters, history revisionists and reality deniers who hold them in reverence are subject to being reasoned with, you are operating under a delusion of your own abilities.

I'll waste not a moment trying to throw pearls before those swine, anymore than I would spend hours trying to explain the virtue of medical science to a religious fanatic mother who opts to pray over her sick child, and allow him to die from an easily curable disease. I'd bitch slap her, and take the kid to the hospital. Period.

I don't toy with them or fool myself into thinking that I am some guiding light and they are receptors of my sage argument and intellect. Those people deserve nothing more than being "shut up" by ridicule, dismissal and utter rejection of their buffoonery. That's my position. That you disagree is fine with me.

Regards,
Hump

36 comments:

BathTub said...

It's good enough for a the Lord of Bananas

"I do admit to mocking atheist, because mockery is a legitimate form of debate according to my Rule-book."

- Ray Comfort on 4/27/2009 at raycomfortfood blog.

NewEnglandBob said...

"raycomfortfood blog"

How apt, how appropriate that he admits that all he is is comfort food.

From Wikipedia:

The term "comfort food" refers to simple, familiar food that is usually home-cooked or eaten at informal restaurants. More generally, comfort food can be defined as food that brings some form or measure of comfort, sense of well-being, or easy satisfaction, usually from being warm and filling such as a dish made with a staple food, or basically pleasing such as sweets or desserts. Comfort foods may also involve foods that have a nostalgic element either to an individual or a specific culture.

Notice that there is nothing of substance, usually non-nutritious but just emotional triviality.

I think that sums up Ray Comfort just dandy!

Joyce said...

You know, in retrospect, you are really the first atheist to engage with me, to laugh WITH me (and AT me, although you liberally allow me to do the same), who has shown me respect, who I don't feel I have to apologize or explain my faith nor do I expect you to do either for your lack of, who I've been able to answer truthfully, "I don't know" to some of your questions without fear of being mocked.

I know that as a Christfollower much of my reasoning is based on faith yet I also know that I am a person of common sense and reason. You will never be bitchslapping me. I'll be calling you for a ride home from the hospital after the science of doctors has fixed us up. (And don't ask me about my recent healing. You won't like what I have to say. LOL)

Love ya, Drom.

Rastifan said...

I agree with Hump here. In light of the catholic church abuse scandal (I have a hard time saying the word catholic without getting insanely pissed. I will explain), I have found my self in debate with other catholic's regarding the state of their faith in the church and the fucks that run it.

They STILL have faith in the church and the fucks that run it. They have. WHAT MUST IT TAKE. A eyewitness rape of their own child for them to get their head out of their own ass?

Every possible argument including evidence I presented was met with the most solid wall of ignorance and self denial I have ever seen. This is still the church of god. Still his servants. Still the institution which as the sole right to preach moral and spiritual guidance.

I can't for the love of reason understand these people, and I won't try to any longer. I had it with the astounding amount of stupidity and irresponsible mindset they display in regards for the safety of their own children and others. It staggers me.

Humps point is all to well understood from my side of the table.

universalheretic said...

you know, you could be much more harsh and still be justified, IMO. Calling someone dense for damning you to hell is pretty well tempered.

Helga said...

Rastifan, I'm with you regrading the catholics....what a debauched bunch of sad old tossers. And their even sadder followers. Blind faith is a dangerous thing indeed. But then all those men in dresses have to do is wheel out the shroud of Turin for the fans to go wild...how is it possible??! If only all kids could be taught to 'question everything', from an early age, we might have a more reasoning and rational society. I wish Dawkins and Hitchens luck with their plans to have ratzinger arrested for his crimes against humanity when he enters the UK in September. The thought of his arrest, and the negative exposure of any other god-botherer, sustains me...

Analog Kid said...

Another smackdown, courtesy of the Humpster. People like Comfort and Phelps should have their vocal cords and fingers surgically removed so they can no longer poison soft minds. The world will truly be a better place when they no longer exist. I'd love to see the look on their faces at the moment of death, when they finally realize there's no afterlife.

aspen-bh said...

I not an embassadir to Atheism and I don't want to argue with theists - I just want them to die. As long as each fundamentalist jew, christian, muslim does not get what it deserves - a nice bullet through its head - this world will be a mess.

Tracey said...

Rastifan, even eyewitnessing their own child being raped by a priest wouldn't change their positions. They'd come up with some sort of "gawd's will" or "everything has a purpose" type bullshit to justify it.

Good blog, Hump.

Joyce said...

I'm glad Aspen is in Brazil.

Rastifan said...

aspen-bh

That type of argument serves no one. That was the catholic church approach in middle ages and still would be had they the power. Be better than that.

Rastifan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rastifan said...

Tracey

I am sad to say this, but I believe you can be quite right about that. History has proven again and again what people are willing to put up with and do so long they actually believe there is a god behind it.

Helga

I think they know the old fart won't get arrested. I think the point is to raise questions unheard of before. Arrest the pope? Are you mad? But the question is raised and now people are thinking about it. It is no longer unheard of. See:)

Atemis Ward said...

Joyce said, "I know that as a Christfollower much of my reasoning is based on faith yet I also know that I am a person of common sense and reason."

As a believer could you explain your faith to me? That is the root of my incredulity with religion. You have this book that says that God is all-powerful, he can do anything. And that is all you need, common sense and reason notwithstanding, no need for evidence or proof--it's in the book. Why not demand that god, e.g., send us all a note on indestructible paper saying he loves us? Would that be too much to ask of an omnipotent god? Instead the writers of the Bible have no qualms asking intelligent humans, people with common sense and reason, to believe that an all-powerful God is real utterly without evidence. It doesn't compute. It has "Gullible sucker" written all over it. Under any other circumstance than the Bible and God, you'd laugh your head off at someone asking you to believe totally on faith when they say they are all-powerful. How do you handle the cognitive dissonance?

Thanks.

aspen-bh said...

“Life is like throwing a ball at the wall:
if you throw a blue ball, it comes back blue;
if you throw a green ball, it comes back green;
if you throw a weak ball, it comes back weak;
it you throw a strong ball, it comes back strong.
So, you should never throw a ball
in a way you are not ready to receive it back.
Life does not give or borrow;
is has no feelings or pity.
All it does is returning and forwarding
what we give it ourselves.”
- attributed to Albert Einstein.

So far, religionists have been given the privilege of throwing violent balls in every direction, being spared of any fight back just because of religion's special privileges. They spread hate and demand not to be hated back. Well, their safe-conduct have just been revoked. Play time.

Dromedary Hump said...

Aspen,
You and I are both rabid anti-theists. Most of us here would happily see religion dissappear and with it all the ills that it has foistered upon civilization for thousands of years. It will disappear, not in our life times, but eventually.

The only thing I would caution, and to echo Rasti; atheists do not bomb people. We don't assasinate them because we dislike their thinking/beliefs/politicas. We don't fly planes into buildings or picket the funerals of gays.

If and when we as thinking people have to resort to violence as a way to spread reason, or blunt/discredit religious ferver, then we'd have become what we hate most about fundamentalist theists.

Would I like to see the televangelsist hucksters, the Imams who issue fatwas, the fanatics who bomb abortion clinics or innocent civilians, the child molesting clergy and those who protect them, the science denying nutters who want to dumb down our schools, the holier than thou who would stand in the way of equality for gays and a woman's right to choose suddenly disdappear from the face of the earth? You bet your ass I would.

But wishing it is different than suggesting that brutal and illegal acts of violence is an appropriate means to a desired end.

I share your frustration, but lets not let any theist look upon us as being anything near what the worst of them have practiced for milleniums.

Texas Mike said...

Nice reply to Aspen there, Hump. Very well put.

btw, I went to the Way of the Master web site and looked around. it's really sad because you know they are serious, but it's so far out there that if you told someone it was a satire site poking fun at religion they would find it hilarious. Their on line test to determine if you are "good enough to get into heaven" is a real hoot.

Dromedary Hump said...

So..Mike...do you qualify for Candy Land? ;)

Texas Mike said...

Not even close, hump. Not even close. I am, however, good without god.

Rachelle said...

Just popping in to say I'm still reading and still enjoying it all. LOL!

Dromedary Hump said...

Mike... :)

Rachelle... :)

Joyce said...

Atemis Ward,

Wow. That's a bigger question than I could possibly answer in a blog response. It's taken Drom and me many hours, days, weeks, months, and now years for us to really/kind of/sort of understand where the other is coming from. lol

But you can kind of put my faith/reasoning logic into something like this:

"In the beginning, God said: ∇ • E = ρ / εo ∇ • B = 0 ∇ x E = - ∂B/∂t ∇ x B = μoJ + μoεo∂E/∂t

...and there was light."

Anonymous said...

Joyce said:

"In the beginning, God said: ∇ • E = ρ / εo ∇ • B = 0 ∇ x E = - ∂B/∂t ∇ x B = μoJ + μoεo∂E/∂t"

I'm curious where this was recorded or was this just divine revelation?

"...and there was light."

I thought light was electomagnectic radiation which are just waves of packets of energy called photons. Without any photons to react with dye in special nerve receptors, which in turn sends electrical signals to a nerve bundle (sometimes called a brain) that interpets a model of a universe, how can any sort of recording be made?

;)

- Fastthumbs

Anonymous said...

Joyce said:

"In the beginning, God said: ∇ • E = ρ / εo ∇ • B = 0 ∇ x E = - ∂B/∂t ∇ x B = μoJ + μoεo∂E/∂t"

I'm curious where this was recorded or was this just divine revelation?

"...and there was light."

I thought light was electomagnectic radiation which are just waves of packets of energy called photons. Without any photons to react with dye in special nerve receptors, which in turn sends electrical signals to a nerve bundle (sometimes called a brain) that interpets a model of a universe, how can any sort of recording be made?

;)

- Fastthumbs

Joyce said...

It's Maxwell's theory of light in the best way that I could make it print.

DM said...

Atheists,

but you have NO ANSWER TO DEATH... therefore you FAIL...


THE DEATH TRAP

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaceOff/
********

THE REAL QUESTION:

DOES ATHEISM HAVE A FUTURE?

AND THE ANSWER - NO!

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/does-ath-ism-have-a-future-no-t19859.html

Atheists,

Repent and turn to God.

Joyce said...

DM,

I'm just curious (and I really would like a personal answer).

How is this tactic of yours -- simply copying links, making threats, and continuously repeating yourself -- working for ya?

And I'd like to ask what God it is that you are referring to? Even atheists who don't believe that Jesus is God and the Christians of today and generations past will tell you that Jesus' teachings were of love, kindness to others, clothing the naked, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, and so on.

All of these atheists here that I have met (with the exception of aspen-bh) appear to live their lives with those very qualities. For that I have much respect and admiration for them and am proud to call those that I've gotten to know more personally my friends. I also look forward to getting to know more of them better in the future. I choose to focus on the things that we have in common rather than our differences. In doing so, I've made some great friends.

You, on the other hand, spew hatred and anger (actually, you really spew nothing b/c you use links [which none of us can simply click on and I doubt many, if any, have bothered to copy the URL into their address bars just b/c you don't know how to use an HTML tag] and you just ramble nonsense. Not only is it nonsense, it's the same nonsense over and over again.

So here are my questions: What type of church are you a part of? Are you a Christian? If so, what denomination? If not, what denomination? What church? Where can we read about it?

I'd be interested in reading your response to this.

Please. Fill us in.

Dromedary Hump said...

Joyce,
Thanks for that.

But he doesn't read what's posted here, or anywhere, and engaging him only gives him the attention he craves.
I appreciate your attempt, but a grown man with a history of mental illness, who lives in his mom's basement while he sells computers at the local store (per the SVPD / Montreal Police) isn't exactly the kind of person from which you'd expect much reasoned discourse.

davmab11 said...

Atheists,

but you have NO ANSWER TO DEATH... therefore you FAIL...


THE DEATH TRAP

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaceOff/
********

THE REAL QUESTION:

DOES ATHEISM HAVE A FUTURE?

AND THE ANSWER - NO!

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/does-ath-ism-have-a-future-no-t19859.html

Atheists,

Repent and turn to God.

dm said...

hump...


we are here to the ANNIHILATE THE ATHEIST MOVEMENT not to discuss...

Anonymous said...

Hi Hump,

It's been a while.

I wouldn't mess with this guy. I heard a rumor that he and his imaginary friends have mobilized with their light sabers and Alpha bit decoder rings. They plan on invoking the cumulative power of the shroud of turin buttocks-area lint caked on their nostrils. I've read about this before. First they saturate a blog with copy and paste nonsense, next, a brave one attempts an original thought and almost completes an entire sentence. After that, they plan violence, but the street lights are on and they find they have to finish their reading assignment of 3 full pages of "Sam And The Firefly". I think you're safe on this one.

Adam

Rastifan said...

Adam - Tanks for the laugh. That was a good one:)

Dromedary Hump said...

Adam...heheh. Very good.

and nice to see you again.

DM said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DM said...

the really SHARP END OF OCCAM’S RAZOR…


they mix SKEPTICISM with ATHEISM…

KABOOM…
______________________



with the atheists:

they start begging when they start dying...


they PAY THE PRICE FOR ATTACKING THE SUPERNATURAL -

with their LIVES...


CRYSTAL NIGHT TONIGHT!

Atheists,

but you have NO ANSWER TO DEATH... therefore you FAIL...


THE DEATH TRAP

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaceOff/
********

THE REAL QUESTION:

DOES ATHEISM HAVE A FUTURE?

AND THE ANSWER - NO!

visit:

http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/f30/does-ath-ism-have-future-no-11202.html#post66570




Shermer - Harris - Myers - Dawkins - Randi VS. NOSTRADAMUS - EINSTEIN - MARKUZE


you're ANNIHILATED!

Anonymous said...

DM,

Perchance we can we can back-up just a bit.

(pulls the plastic ring adjoined to a string)click click click click click click ,, click,, click,,,click,,,,,click,,,,,,,

THE COW SAYS?

ADAM (sorry hump)